Mom away from Joanna away from Wales, wife of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth
Following the my personal overview of the youngsters out-of Llywelyn Fawr and you may Joanna as well as the responses they acquired, I appeared once again from genealogical users on the subject of Gwladus Ddu. While it is genuine, since the numerous genealogists explain, one to from the absence of definite evidence one way or another, the new term of the mommy away from Gwladus Ddu need to will always be ‘unknown’, I discovered need not transform my conclusion one to their particular mommy are Joanna rather than Tangwystyl.
Vat
You to definitely after that origin dedicated to the pupils ‘s the pursuing the abstract about ‘Leaders and you may Queens away from Britain’ a well-respected publication, published by Oxford School Push, page 106:
‘Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, b.1173, son out-of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you will Marared, daughter out of Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; hitched Joan, illegitimate child away from King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died 11 April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
To show that it’s not only me one thinks so, i’d like to quotation you to definitely genealogist who is an excellent partner out-of Sharon: “I’m most keen on Sharon Kay Penman’s instructions. Even though they are not purely biographical, Personally i think warmer counting on their own work to ‘submit the newest blanks’ (considering the amount of lookup she obviously placed into their courses), compared to in reality mentioning some genealogical present which i came all over during my browse (I’m sure most of us come across source this way). To whoever has not yet understand their performs, I suggest they extremely very, especially if you need a be for what life try such as for example 800 in years past.”
Their particular look to have ‘HBD’, ‘Drops new Shadow’ and you can ‘Brand new Reckoning’, accomplished before introduction of the web, try its a good
Adopting the concerns presented from the Beth, Suzanne and you will Sandy in particular, I attempt comparing the name away from Joanna’s mother (known hereafter, having ease of reference because the ‘Clemence’ perhaps not ‘Clementia’) courtesy an event towards so you’re able to-be-queen John. This step proved to be so much more advanced than simply I would has think you’ll! Immediately following running up of a lot blind alleys, mainly because of seeking reconcile the brand new chronology of a single into the other, We have compensated about what comes after. Really don’t say that the things i wrote are decisive in virtually any contour or function yakД±nД±mdaki tombul bekar kadД±nlar, plus the truth is we will most likely never be sure out of her label.
(a) This new illegitimate Joanna, daughter of “Clemence,” is actually certainly produced regarding wedlock –– as it is proved by Honorius III’s decree declaring their particular genuine in the April 1226, even in the event in place of prejudice with the queen otherwise arena of The united kingdomt (i.e., offering their unique no-claim to that throne). The brand new decree, which has been transcribed regarding fresh, unpublished Register out of Honorius III (Reg. 13, fol. 122 ), says inter alia you to definitely “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” and therefore, I’m advised, means “Queen John away from The united kingdomt, whenever solitary , fathered you because of the an unmarried lady.”
It means Joanna have come produced zero later than just 1189 whenever John partnered Isabella out of Gloucester. Her mother, “Clemence” try probably French or Norman, since proof throughout the patent rolls from John’s rule suggests that Joan is put out-of Normandy to help you England during the December 1203, to prepare to have relationship so you’re able to Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (discover less than). Joanna passed away when you look at the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate daughter Joan, by the Isabella from Angouleme (married so you’re able to John in the 1200 from the many years twelve!), was created within Gloucester into the twenty-two July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals on the Rolls Collection, vol. thirty six.we, p. 59; brand new Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. 36.iv, p. 399; as well as the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to have John’s Rule, pp. 124, 143). This is basically the Joan which subsequently partnered Alexander II regarding Scotland and you will she passed away for the 1238, specific months just after Joanna (this might account fully for a few of the confusion evident involving the one or two women). She remaining no issue because of the Alexander II.
